Curse

Cosmic Error · Jan 19, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

While my favorite profession is by far the Ritualist, the first character I made, way back when, was a Necromancer. Still play him from time to time. I did not follow the cookie-cutter builds that everyone who plays a necromancer insists on running. Instead, I decided to go with blood magic, and not the Blood is Power sort. I asked around for offensive blood magic builds, but the replies I got were all:

"Lulz, bludd magik sux u shud make a Minon mastr"

or something else along those lines. Granted, there are some blood skills that suck, but an entire attribute line? No.

My current PvE build is something like this:

Necro/Mesmer

Blood Magic 12+1+3
All remaining points dumped into Soul Reaping

[card]Vampiric Gaze[/card]
[card]Unholy Feast[/card]
[card]Shadow Strike[/card]
[card]Vampiric Swarm[/card]
[card]Barbed Signet[/card]
[card]Offering of Blood[/card]
[card]Arcane Echo[/card]
[card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

Granted, it's not going to be winning any Hero's Ascent matches, but it actually works really well in PvE, and i've even gotten some thank-yous from Monks who were sick of healing suicidal BiP batteries.

Let the flaming begin...

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

The people who said blood magic sucked were...well, right. Compared to curses/death magic, the damage is bad. All of the elites except for OotV (which isn't all that great) suck. Most of the skills suck. It is by far the worst attribute line for necromancer, and there's no reason to run it.

As for your build, your elite is bad. If you need an elite skill to manage your energy as a necromancer, your party isn't killing things fast enough. Soul reaping should be enough to keep your energy stable. Also, your damage is laughable. Overall, the build is pretty bad.

Cosmic Error · Jan 19, 2008, 04:18 AM // 04:18

[card]Spoil Victor[/card]
[card]Life Siphon[/card] (cover hex)
[card]Vampiric Gaze[/card]
[card]Vampiric Swarm[/card]
[card]Barbed Signet[/card]
[card]Well of Blood[/card]
[card]Arcane Echo[/card]
[card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

How's that?

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Your damage is still bad. SV is basically a conditional SS with more damage and no AoE. Chances are the enemy you cast SV on is going to have lower health then anyone in your party very fast, making SV quite useless. Other then that, your damage still sucks.

Honestly, just go with curses/death if you want to be offensive, because blood magic has crap offense.

SarothinForums · Jan 19, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Hey, I think it's a pretty good build. Just by looking at the skills it may not look like it, but I ran something similar in PvP and sometimes PvE and remember often being the last man standing. Not only that but I managed to wipe out whatever was left and bring back the rest of the team (finally shove it down the people's throats that wanted you to be an MM or SS). Thanks for posting.

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Being the last person alive doesn't mean you did anything special, it just means you either aggro'd too much or your monks were bad. Wiping whatever is alive also doesn't make it a great build. Depending on what you're up against, any offensive build with a self heal should be able to wipe whatever is left. Or if you were smart you'd res someone else and get a res chain going so you don't die trying to be a hero, which would be the better decision.

LightningHell · Jan 19, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Be aware that being able to stay alive the longest frequently does not mean you're contributing to the team.

Biostem · Jan 19, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Here's a blood/curses hybrid build I sometimes use:

[skill]shadow strike[/skill][skill]dark pact[/skill][skill]vampiric gaze[/skill][skill]insidious parasite[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]well of power[/skill][skill]awaken the blood[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]

By no means a perfect build, I found it to be fairly effective. I generally open w/ insidious parasite, followed by shadow strike for max damage, then spam dark pact and vampiric gaze. Once one enemy is defeated I hit well of power and stand in it to keep my health and energy up to continue w/ the attacks. Signet of lost souls is simply a way to top off my hp and energy in between doing other stuff. I don't have an ideal load-out on runes currently, but here's what I run:

Blood magic: 12 + 3 + 1
Curses: 9 + 1
Soul reaping: 9 + 1

Moloch Vein · Jan 19, 2008, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Your damage is still bad. SV is basically a conditional SS with more damage and no AoE.

The damage output from an SV necromancer isn't "bad". It's just frequently worse than SS and especially in group-farming situations. The damage output from SV is also frequently more useful than the output from SS, because it's bigger and targetted to the problem-opponents (monks, bosses).

Quote:

Chances are the enemy you cast SV on is going to have lower health then anyone in your party very fast, making SV quite useless.

Bring Bone Minions. Cast the spell on a monk. Fight monsters that are level 30.

Quote:

Other then that, your damage still sucks.

Again, no, it doesn't. However, the build he posted kinda sucks. It's got very little utility. He would probably be a lot more effective just bringing Arcane Echo and Spoil Victor with zero other spells.

Mickey · Jan 19, 2008, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Your damage is still bad. SV is basically a conditional SS with more damage and no AoE. Chances are the enemy you cast SV on is going to have lower health then anyone in your party very fast, making SV quite useless. Other then that, your damage still sucks.

Honestly, just go with curses/death if you want to be offensive, because blood magic has crap offense.

Pair that SV build with a Minion Bomber and your ready to go tbh.

boogerboy72 · Jan 19, 2008, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

Pair that SV build with a Minion Bomber and your ready to go tbh.

qft.

i played blood for a long time, i thought it was good, then i capped ss to see what all the fuss was about. i havent looked back since

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

The damage output from an SV necromancer isn't "bad". It's just frequently worse than SS and especially in group-farming situations. The damage output from SV is also frequently more useful than the output from SS, because it's bigger and targetted to the problem-opponents (monks, bosses).
Bring Bone Minions. Cast the spell on a monk. Fight monsters that are level 30.
Again, no, it doesn't. However, the build he posted kinda sucks. It's got very little utility. He would probably be a lot more effective just bringing Arcane Echo and Spoil Victor with zero other spells.

SV actually isn't all that great damage when you factor in the damage your party will be dealing to the enemy. I don't know about henchies, but you and your heroes should all have 600+ health unless for some reason you're running superiors. Sure against bosses SV will be doing major damage because they have a much higher health, but against regular foes SV isn't that great. And yes, his damage is bad. SV is pretty much his only major damage, but again against regular foes it won't be doing much.

Quote:

Pair that SV build with a Minion Bomber and your ready to go tbh.

I'd much rather pair a curses necro with mark of pain/barbs with a minion bomber, not a bad blood build.

Moloch Vein · Jan 19, 2008, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

SV actually isn't all that great damage when you factor in the damage your party will be dealing to the enemy. I don't know about henchies, but you and your heroes should all have 600+ health unless for some reason you're running superiors. Sure against bosses SV will be doing major damage because they have a much higher health, but against regular foes SV isn't that great.

With that line of thinking I'm not sure if I trust that you've ever run an SV. A monster in high level PvE will have immensely much more health than your party. He will have that much or even more against your minions. He is guaranteed not to have the same health as his allies. I find it vaguely amusing that you complain about an SV damage output being "bad"... a properly outfitted and played SV does among the most damage of any single character in the game. Oh, and if some reason you're running physicals, which I'm fairly sure you do... you do know that Order of Pain and Dark Fury is in the Blood line?

Quote:

I'd much rather pair a curses necro with mark of pain/barbs with a minion bomber, not a bad blood build.

There's no reason you can't bring both, and no reason that SV must be the only spell on the bar.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 19, 2008, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Arkantos, SV isn't truly that terrible.

It has good applications in PvE - namely, to wtfpwn bosses who will have higher health than you. You can combine it with Pain Inverter and really purt the hurt on big enemies.

Also, for mobs with monks - specifically multiple monks - SV, again, becomes incredibly powerful. Remembering it triggers whenever you use a skill on any creature with less health than you...

However, the problem with Blood is... well... everything else you can put on your bar is shit.

- Ok, you're in a PuG... Blood Ritual can be useful, chances are the monks don't know what 'energy management' is.

- Blood of the Aggressor is passable. If you want a DD, it's the only one that I'd bother with.

- PvE skills alleviate the problem some, you can spend half your bar on these. Pain Inverter/"Finish Him!"/Ebon Wisdom Ward and/or Necrosis are the kinda things that mesh well with the build.

Then... what? Some party support and a res?

[skill]spoil victor[/skill][skill]blood ritual[/skill][skill]blood of the aggressor[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]

12+1+1 Blood
10 Restoration
8+1 SR

... ugh, a messy bar.
But far stronger than packing it with shit Blood DDs.

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

With that line of thinking I'm not sure if I trust that you've ever run an SV. A monster in high level PvE will have immensely much more health than your party. He will have that much or even more against your minions. He is guaranteed not to have the same health as his allies. I find it vaguely amusing that you complain about an SV damage output being "bad"... a properly outfitted and played SV does among the most damage of any single character in the game. Oh, and if some reason you're running physicals, which I'm fairly sure you do... you do know that Order of Pain and Dark Fury is in the Blood line?
There's no reason you can't bring both, and no reason that SV must be the only spell on the bar.

I ran SV when factions came out, I've ran SV in HM. Enemies in PvE lose health fast enough, which is why I dislike SV. In PvE, you want to be running AoE's as much as possible, another reason why SV isn't that great. A MM has minions that will be attacking all over, triggering death nova when they die. A SS necro has SS/MoP for some really nice AoE damage. That is why most people run those two over a blood necro. If you want to run SV, run it on an orders necro so you'll still be supporting your party. Even on an orders necro, I'd rather run Icy Veins for the AoE damage. I'm well aware that OoP and DF are in the blood line, I never said the whole like was crap.

When you're speccing into blood, you'll be using blood skills. Seeing as most blood skills are bad, speccing into blood magic for offensive skills is gimping yourself. If you're speccing into blood, it should be for OoP/DF/BR (henchies suck with energy) and not offensive skills.

Quote:

Arkantos, SV isn't truly that terrible.

It has good applications in PvE - namely, to wtfpwn bosses who will have higher health than you. You can combine it with Pain Inverter and really purt the hurt on big enemies.

Also, for mobs with monks - specifically multiple monks - SV, again, becomes incredibly powerful. Remembering it triggers whenever you use a skill on any creature with less health than you...

So SV is good for bosses and mobs with competent monks. You're using your elite slot for two enemies types of enemies. If you know you're going to have to fight a hard boss, go ahead and bring SV. If the bosses are easy, there's no reason you should bring it. As for the two monks, well there aren't many mobs that have 2 monks that will be causing trouble other then a few places. In general, it's not that useful, but if you're up against those two types of enemies, I agree it's not that terrible.

Cosmic Error · Jan 19, 2008, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Arkantos, there is no such thing as a bad attribute line. I played my Blood Necro again today. You guys are right, he's not doing nearly as much damage as my Channeling Ritualist. But...

[card]Spoil Victor[/card]
[card]Mark of Subversion[/card]

Bane of all monks.

Also, the following skills all happen to be in the Blood line:

[card]Blood Is Power[/card]
[card]Well of Power[/card]
[card]Order of the Vampire[/card]
[card]Well of Blood[/card]
[card]Order of Pain[/card]
And, of course...
[card]Spoil Victor[/card]

ZING!

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

When a majority of skills in a line is bad, it's a bad skill line. OoP is good, SV, OotV and WoB are alright (although I'd never run them), and the rest are bad.

Cosmic Error · Jan 19, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

If you're speccing into blood, it should be for OoP/DF

Are you running a Meleemancer or something?

Arkantos · Jan 19, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Pretty stupid reply. Read the skill descriptions. They affect the whole party. OoP/DF in physical heavy parties are crazy buffs. OoP is pretty self explanatory. +damage for every physical? Yes please. DF + FGJ = 4 adrenaline in one hit. As long as it's being spammed, you'll be able to spam any adrenaline skill a lot. DF by itself is 2 adrenaline in one hit, making it possible to still spam adrenaline skills. Meleemancers suck, physical buffs in physical heavy parties does not.

Moloch Vein · Jan 19, 2008, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Even on an orders necro, I'd rather run Icy Veins for the AoE damage.

Icy Veins??!! You're kidding? Do you actually know how bad that damage is? Hell, I'd rather run Life Tranfer on a Blood necro with Orders, and that's not saying much...

Other than that, I agree, you'll want to run a lot of AoE in PvE... but there aren't that many armor ignoring AoE spells in the game. In the Blood line SV is by far the best elite for general purpose.